Comments on: It’s not about not offending

By: stormy

stormy — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 15:33:50 +0000

I agree that our traditional cultural roles influence what jobs we take. For
example, the drop out rate of women in technology jobs is very high. I’ve
heard that only 1/3 of new female computer science graduates still have jobs
in computer science after 2 years. I think one of the reasons for this is
that women are more likely to feel that it’s ok to give up a high paying or
prestigious job if it’s terrible. Men often feel like they need to stick
with it – not having a job means they are an irresponsible
partner/husband/dad.

By: Ed Dodds

Ed Dodds — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:14:37 +0000

Stormy:
I think the trend that women are “underrepresented” in STEM and open source is in fact a good one. Women are ruthlessly logical about the cost/benefits of career choices; perhaps it’s the legacy of getting paid 85 cents on the dollar re: old white men. Analytical women know that for all the rhetoric coming out of the fedgov, pc corporations and higher ed about the need for women in STEM, we (the US) as a culture reward 1) bankers who lie and hold contracts in disdain, 2) sports stars in fields related to balls and wheels, 3) rappers and folks who make movies, and 4) the occasional world-beating politico. If one is a single mom raising kids (statistically a pretty big chunk of the female demographic) one doesn’t have the luxury of being idealistic about the fields that have the potential to help society while they are being rightsized, offshored and down-salaried in order to bump C-Suite bonuses a microtad. When women in tech get the same comp as the good ol’ boys in the corner office or the bling of the entertainers then the climate will change. It’s all about transparency and incentives of the realeconomik sort.

By: stormy

stormy — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 09:23:58 +0000

Thanks for sharing your story and the list.
I definitely wouldn’t have ended up with this career if it hadn’t been for
my dad. He also made sure I had the right to play football and be an
altergirl. Neither of which I wanted to do. But I really appreciate now the
fact that he made sure I knew I could do anything I wanted regardless of
gender.

By: dannipenguin.livejournal.com

dannipenguin.livejournal.com — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 03:51:22 +0000

Since I’ve been brought up, I wanted to share my thoughts.
I’ve often wondered, if I had been born cisgendered, would I still have developed the same interest in computers?
I was first exposed to PCs very early on, Dad worked as a PC technician and he and Mum purchased a computer so that she could word process her second degree (this is back when most people were typewriting or handwriting their assignments). It was Dad who taught me the basics of programming, and how to put a computer together, about computer networks and how to debug problems. I made friends with the other computer nerd in my year at primary school (a boy). We learnt a lot together.
If I had been born female, would my Dad and my teachers have devoted so much time to reinforcing my technical, mathematical and reasoning skills. I’ve thought about this a lot but I don’t have an answer. Maybe I would have gone into a more pure science (like Mum). I also wonder whether my (crucial) friendship with that young boy would have flourished.
I feel that being perceived as male made my entry into free software and professional programming much, much easier. I don’t think I was required to prove myself nearly as much as I might otherwise have. Although I don’t really feel qualified to comment on this yet, wait until my worth is judged by someone not aware of my gender history.
I’ve joked that I became a FOSS woman the “easy way” and while I was terrified about coming out via my blog, everyone was really awesome. Something for which I’m really grateful.
Finally, I wanted to share this page from Tim Chevalier, which I found both enlightening and terrifying: http://lafalafu.com/krc/privilege.html

By: stormy

stormy — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:24:39 +0000

Some think I used to hear a lot – and I really think people meant it as a
compliment – was “You don’t look like an engineer.” Either I now look like a
manager or people have gotten a clue or something.

By: moose

moose — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:49:54 +0000

Brilliant.
One of the struggles I have in coordinating the Diversity in Open Source Workshop for this weekend’s Ohio LinuxFest is getting people to understand that it’s not simply about gender, or race, or identity. It’s “How would you feel if you were the only person who looked different than everyone else in the room.”
The common response to this is that it has no relation to online groups. Except it does. Those who don’t speak English well are talked down to or treated as stupid, instead of someone reaching out a hand to say, “I understand English isn’t your first language, please help me try to understand you.” People with foreign-sounding names are expected to have similar difficulties. And of course, women are expected to simply not understand anything technical. {A friend, a 10+ yr sysadmin, once went to a technical Linux IRC channel only to be told to “go install Ubuntu, it’ll be easier for you to understand.”)
It’s not affirmative action. Nobody is demanding that N% of something be XYZ type of people. But if people don’t feel welcome in a project they’re just not going to get involved. And that’s a loss to both them AND the project.

By: stormy

stormy — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:02:52 +0000

Then why are only 1.5% of FOSS projects women? I’m not buying the “because
women don’t want to join” – I like working in the software word too much to
buy that it’s a job only men would enjoy.

By: G

Mon, 21 Sep 2009 11:50:07 +0000

No one ever welcomed me into the FOSS world (I’m a guy). I fought for my own recognition and reputation against egocentric mailing-list mavens, jerkwad conference presenters, and all the petty cliquiness that happens when you’re an outsider who wants in.
It takes effort and a really thick skin to join a FOSS project. Just read LKML some time.
I guess I’m just getting really tired of reading posts about how FOSS makes it hard for women to join. FOSS projects are hard for *anyone* to join, regardless of sex.
I don’t actually care that there aren’t as many women as men in Open Source, and I don’t think it matters at all. If women wanted to be here, they’d be here – when you want something, you put up with the crap and go get it, no matter what.
Blatant rudeness, injustice, brag or abuse should not be tolerated by FOSS communities. In most it’s not. But these are human groups, and people make mistakes and have egos. Some of the smartest people I know are complete assholes – to EVERYONE, including me – but boy do they ever contribute.
People gravitate to communities they enjoy working in. If rude, abusive communities that get things done were truly not workable, they would wither and die.

By: stormy

stormy — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 10:38:22 +0000

And FOSS does a great job of including people from all different
nationalities.

By: Jack Repenning

Jack Repenning — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 10:20:52 +0000

Finely slicing the statistics wanders a bit off the point. A quick glance at the numbers is useful in a “wake-up call” sort of way, but whether the FOSSiverse has half as many or twice as many women (or men, or gays, or prong-horned antelope) as the general IT community (or national population, or society of coffee drinkers) is nowhere near as important as what we do to welcome people in.
Social tribing seems to have two phases. In the “exclusion” phase, we talk about the differences (like the xkcd linked above). In the “inclusion” phase, we talk about the unique, interesting personalities and contributions. Still “differences”; different response.